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Doomed Gundam
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Doomed Gundam
@Kiryusolver9
The novels are not canon.
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Doomed Gundam
@Truebluehedgehog-i8p
I was doing some more research on my end and well it's pretty much a wrap for you dog. Turns out I was wrong about the “the power Stars grant resistances to the powers they give.”
Yeah, turns out the current creator for power Star saga actually said “They Grant resistances to the powers they Gave AND ANY HAXES that exist.” So… Yeah, even if Sonic.Exe actually had Meta-Powers they wouldn't be a Win-Con lol.
Not only that but the creator of Power Star Saga was asked if Devil Mario could CANONICALLY beat SPECIFICALLY JC Sonic.Exe in a fight. His response was “Easily.”
Multiple times actually and even agreed that Devil Mario could Resist against one of the animators hired to animate the Reimagined series.
Sorry Dawg, You're just cooked at this point. So even if you could prove Sonic.exe had Meta Manipulation, it's not even a win-con for him considering Devil Mario can Resist the influences of his animator and each power star he has grants him even more powerful resistances to All Haxes but let's just go over your argument.
First off, stop putting words in mouth. I never said X was weak, only weak against the universe which is evidence that people with resistances to the abilities he has are bad match up for him. I'm sorry but this point here is purely headcanon at least the Powerless part in reference to the universe and how it's not a weakness. First order of business, incompatibility is a form of resistance and the way the incompatibility is treated, it's clearly a weakness. X canonically was stated by word of God to be powerless when attempting to fully enter the universe. It's outright stated by JC his Gateway/Game was Created as an alternative to his powerlessness, Meaning it's not at all what X truly wants or intended to be how he interacts with the human world. X’s incompatibility with the universe is a weakness. Any reality warper would just create a universe similar to the human world or write a rule stating ‘X cannot enter’ to defend themselves against X’s attacks and Presence then come up with a counter attack. Considering that X staying in the human world for a prolonged period of time can destroy his physical form and he has to wait an hour before he can try again shows how someone can use these canonical limitations of his powers against him. Sonic.exe for a fact doesn't have a consistent proper answer from something that can resist influence. Then the fact characters can apply the human world's incompatibility to themselves and make it better with no drawbacks. Considering It's been confirmed that Devil Mario just resists all Haxes and they get stronger with each power star and X has no consistent answer to Devil Mario's reality warping, the Fight heavily leans into Devil Mario's favor.
I'm not missing the point at all, X has to try alternate methods because his full power just can't overcome the universal barrier to claim all of reality as his own. This is a consistent plot point and stated directly in X’s bio that he is Powerless to fully enter the universe. He has to use underhanded tactics and try to slip on bits and pieces of himself into the universe. If he spends too much of his time inside, it outright forces him out and destroys his direct presence in the process. It's outright stated he's FORCED out meaning whatever power he could manifest for a short time is ultimately nullified to the point the universe kicks him out and forcefully closes the gateway. Essentially his influence is literally turned off if he overstays his welcome. As stated before, people with resistances to such abilities would also be able to resist X’s influence and even create an exact environment comparable to that of the human world.
Again you're making stuff up. There's literally no statement that X is too big or too much for the universe to handle. There's more evidence suggesting that X just isn't powerful enough to have his way with the universe and express absolute control. The context of JC’s words and the fact he outright states X is powerless to enter completely and that he can't survive our world is way more consistent to the entire plot of the story then this made up idea of how you think X actually is. At this point it's your interpretation going against the Author's written word. If X was any of what you were saying JC would've said he was but JC doesn't ever say or allude to any of what you've said.
Now that we're on the topic of “He can force people to lose.” again You're definitely taking those words way out of context and exaggerating what JC meant. As I've previously explained, it's within the context that he's already secured control over someone. Then there's the fact the statement itself doesn't imply Meta-Manipulation at all. “Oyeah, He can fight :3”-JC if I fight a person and beat them in that fight, I've made them lose on purpose. You've somehow taken a very easy to understand quote beyond extremes to try and forcefully assert an incorrect narrative of the author's words to try and grant an ability a character doesn't have and that doesn't even match the nature of the story written by the author. You don't need Meta-Powers to force someone to lose. You can just kick their ass in a fight, which is the literal context of the question “Can he fight?”- LuchaLibreLibro. As a matter of fact, there are multiple ways to force people to lose on purpose like being a sneak or strategist. None of which needs Meta-Manipulation. As I also stated before, Meta-Manipulation wouldn't work either, Considering It's been confirmed that Devil Mario with his power stars can reject his animator and is just resistant to Meta-Manipulation in general.
No, the gateway is designed as a game to keep the player interested long enough for him to pour in more of his energy so he can have enough time and power to snatch a person's soul before the universe destroys his physical form and he has to start back at Square one again. Is he toying with the person while doing it? Yeah but that doesn't suddenly make everything established prior suddenly not true.
Now that we're on the topic of the guardians, something that I forgot to cover…
The creations of the guardians do not imply the manipulation of the human world or the concepts of human emotions. Let's look at the descriptions of the guardians. “made from his power combined with the powerful emotions of humans.” None of this implies conceptual manipulation or manipulation of the human world. The fact X has a whole bunch of humans in his world, he already has the resources necessary to create the guardians.
Now onto Kyoufu and Yukubo… description of both characters were pulled from the WE ARE GODS wikia. Immediately wrong as the WE ARE GODS wiki merges the continuity of 2011 and 2017 which are not of the same continuity. Not to mention the WE ARE GODS Wikia doesn't even cite their sources either meaning the description of the guardians are made up.
I don't need to indulge in any more of the guardians as you're pulling from sources that made those statements up and don't even back them up with citations or JC quotes. The original Guardians of 2011 do not enter or maintain their existence in the human world They act just like X and operate outside of the human world from his world.
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Doomed Gundam
@Truebluehedgehog-i8p
You claim I'm cherry picking but JC outright stated Sonic.Exe does not have the power to fully leave his world and enter ours. That's why he needs his gateway. It's a crutch for his inability to enter our world and it's a temporary one that doesn't last long.
JC story:
“Unfortunately X learned that he did not truly exist in the other universe and thus was not able to ACCESS into the human world very EASILY.”
JC Revised Sonic.exe story:
“The reason X has to steal a person's soul so quickly is because X doesn't exist in the human world, and thereby can't be in it for too long. If X takes too long to steal someone's soul, the reality within the human world will FORCE him back into his world and even DESTROY his body and thus X has to wait an hour to head back into the human world.”
So I'm not cherry picking. Meanwhile you're using very weak points such as “Oh he's able to teleport into the human world.” But not without the gateway that doesn't last long due to the universe actively repelling him.
“the reality within the human world will FORCE him back”-JC the Hyena
It's literally stated his teleportation only last a few minutes before Reality forces him back and this is in reference to him using his gateway.
“Exe can even teleport into the human world though he can only be in it for a few minutes before having to go back into his world” - JC the Hyena.
It doesn't matter if he can teleport and exist for a moment. I'm not in the wrong, Reality forces him and he can't leave his world to enter ours like he wants to only for small moments. He factually has a limitation to how long he can stay and He's heavily affected by Reality forcing him out.
“X has to wait an hour to head back into the human world.”-JC
Reality forces X to take a step back and before trying again.
You genuinely think “Oh he can still enter the human world but only for a few seconds and it results in his body being destroyed if he stays too long.” Does not imply he's powerless against the universe the moment he overstays his welcome? He literally cannot bypass the universe throwing him out. If he wasn't powerless, he’d be able to stay as long as he wants and achieve his dream which is take over the entire universe.
JC:
“His goal is to fully infect the human world and remove the limitations and merge his world with the human world.”
Considering Sonic.Exe canonically has not achieved this goal means this alternative is the best that he can do because the universe outright repels his existence. The fact theres a time limit and his physical form can be destroyed once this time limit is reached is direct confirmation that the universe is capable of repelling him.
“His limitations are not a combative weakness.”
Yes it is. Everything you've been saying about Exe is a farce. He is factually affected by the laws of reality as the very reality of the human world can force him out and nullify his powers. He needs a constant source of his own energy fluctuating in order to TEMPORARILY fight against the influence of the universe. You keep on implying “Oh the reason why he doesn't fully enter is because he'll break the universe.” When this is not true and JC has stated consistently “He can't remain in our world because the universe kicks him out/He can't survive our realm.”
Onto the next point.
Sonic.exe cannot force people to lose. Even on the Official Exe Wikia that even has the following disclaimer:
“This is an official EXE, meaning it was created by or with approval of one of Sonic.exe’s owners.”
So not only does the Wikia have JC approval and Help with the construction of this site as well as the fact the Screen that was taken from Furaffinity was under the context that this was in X’s world and people already under his control but here's further undeniably evidence the X cannot manipulate fate outside of his realm.
All Official Wikia Information sourced by JC:
“X also has a rather violent temper if provoked correctly, which can prove to be his undoing.”
This directly contradicts Your incorrect assumption of the idea the X “Can make people lose.” X can be made upset by people outside of his world. This outright states he's not in control of anything outside realm which aligns with the narrative of Sonic.Exe to begin(I'll go into the narrative later)
“If X doesn't get his way all the time or if the game isn't being played in his favor, X will get uncharacteristically angry.”
It's outright stated by JC from the Wikia that X will get angry if things are out of his control. Meaning X can't force a person to lose and can just outright deny the game.
“If one were to anger him enough, he would rage quit, but by doing so the resulting damage to his "system" would cause him to go into temporary sleep mode before waking back up.”
Xs lack of control outright forces him to shut himself off. Literally throwing a tantrum because of his inability to win an encounter from someone playing his game.
“If someone were to defeat or at least outsmart X, X will not stop until he either gets even with them or makes them his newest slave.”
This is consistent as this happens in Round 2 with Detective Derek. Sonic.Exe is consistently stated by JC to lose his temper due to lack of control. Not only that but people can actively fight against his skin influences easily.
With multiple word of God statements. Story consistency and Clarification on the screenshot from Furaffinity. Sonic.Exe “He can make people lose.” Refers exclusively to his world, people in the bodies he made for them and when he invaded people's dream. This is consistent with his actual game, his story from JC and Round 2. Outside of any scenario where is not in control, he has shown to lash out to the point he disables himself as stated by JC. All of this is on the Wikia meaning this is information that is consistent and sources by JC.
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Doomed Gundam
@Truebluehedgehog-i8p
@MarkJordan-j6j
So Actually taking the time to fact check everything you said. Yeah no, You're making stuff up. Everything in this reply is referring to every point you brought up and why your in the wrong.
"He's not being kept out. The universe would just break."
JC word for Word:
"The creature had power to alter the very reality of this nightmarish world of his, so it's safe to assume that he is in fact a god in his own universe. Unfortunately, as omnipotent as this creature was, HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY POWER TO LEAVE HIS WORLD and enter ours so he could collect his "toys"”
JC outright states he doesn't have the power to leave his own world. More of JC words showing that Exe is powerless against the universe:
“If Exe takes too long with stealing someone's soul, the reality within the human world will force him back into his world and even destroy his body.” THE UNIVERSE FORCES HIM OUT AND DESTROYS HIS PHYSICAL FORM. In other words, everything you said is absolutely not true and based off of lies. His existence is actively repelled by the universe straight from JC mouth.
In a neutral setting Sonic.exe has no means of bypassing Devil Mario's resistances. Not only that but it's also not at all stated that the universe would suddenly be destroyed if he fully manifested in our world The opposite is stated and that he cannot stay manifested in our world for too long because his power dwindles. He needs the game as a gateway to ensure he has a constant stream of His own essence to maintain his existence within our world. The universe is factually keeping him out It's not the other way around.
"I decided you lose."
I went and found that screenshot, reversed searched it and found the context. He can't force anyone to lose outside of his universe. When JC answered this question on Furaffinity this was under the context of Sonic.exe being in his own world or within a persons Dream. In other words everything you were saying was in fact truly bullshit. Sonic.Exe has no meta manipulating powers. He can't just automatically Make a person lose that's outside of his control or do it in physical space or in anyway that matters. That question was answered in the context that someone was already under his control or in his world 😂. So pretty much what I said was in fact the case. It was all under the context that Exe already had some control over the person and can't do it in amy meaningful way outside of it.
Also here's more evidence showing why “Force you to lose.” is just wrong.
JC:
“If Exe doesn't get his way all the time or if the game isn't being played in his favor, Exe will get uncharacteristically angry.” And this was within the context someone was outside of his world. He cannot force people to play his game or force them to lose. People can make him angry and force him to rage quit his own game.
JC:
“If one were to anger him enough, he would rage quit, but by doing so the resulting damage to his "system" would cause him to go into temporary sleep mode before waking back up.” You can canonically troll X so hard, he'd get so angry and knock himself out.
“Sonic.exe has meta powers.”
JC Giving context on what's happening:
“When the game is installed onto the computer, the creature has full control of the hard-drive and everything in it.”
So everything Sonic.exe does Is the equivalent to that of a hacker. He's not breaking the fourth wall The game is just doing what it's intended to do giving him access from his world to ours to control a person's computer.
I am sticking to the lore. I've already explained to you why everything you've stated is taken heavily out of context. You've failed to provide any evidence that Sonic.exe can can tangle with a guy or character that can resist his powers and failed to provide any actual evidence for his "Meta-Manipulation."
"Devil Mario's Powers doesn't work on a Non-existent being."
Being able to manipulate and create voids is direct evidence that Devil Mario can interact with nonexistent things. Considering the fact that boos don't have a physical body either and the only reason why they survived so long was because they were using the power stars ability to nullify powers that give others the ability to interact with them is evidence he'd be able to interact with Sonic.exe regardless. Not to mention He has Law manipulation, conceptual manipulation and Non-existence manipulation from being able to create voids and sending people to oblivion, not to mention Boos have the ability to Exist as Non-existing creatures as they are screaming in Oblivion by the end of the series.
"The lion"
Your entire lion point does not work in this context. For one a good majority of what you have stated is heavily taken out of the context of the author's own words. Within the context of the story that the author has written heavily implies that devil Mario has the kit necessary to defeat Sonic.Exe. Sonic.exe factually has limits on what he can rewrite. Sonic.exe cannot force people to lose that are outside of his world. Sonic.exe has displayed No actual fourth wall breaking abilities that are not within the context that he's just manipulating a game that he created. Not to mention JC has stated this to be case.
"X true form and Physical form."
It doesn't really matter what form X takes. Mario Void manipulation and the cosmic damage he dealt as well as his conceptual Manipulation make it's clear that Distance and Vastness or Non-existence does not matter. There is a being/Source to destroy not to mention it's hard confirmed that Sonic.Exe is a Mass of Dark Matter. If you destroy that then he's as good as dead. There's no evidence suggesting an existence beyond the dark matter that holds his consciousness either.
"Devil Mario's abilities are limited to his world."
No it's not. Considering he was to destroy his world and rewrite its rules this means his world is not a limited for his powers to exist. His powers and abilities obviously exist outside of the world in which they were born. It's not like the Infinity gauntlet where the gem suddenly go inert once pulled out of the realm. Considering the entire point of Boos mission was to destroy Everything that exists and remake Reality in their own image means that the powers they held functions outside of the their world.
"Doesn't factually exist inside your dimension."
Cool, doesn't change the fact that Devil Mario can make rules up even with reality gone. Remember devil Mario was going to reduce reality to nothing and make a new world with new laws. Devil Mario doesn't need Clay to make the pot. He can produce the clay itself to make the pot.
“Sonic.exe has Non-existence.”
I genuinely can't believe I believe that for a moment. Here's what JC Said:
“See, the creature that is Sonic.exe was created in the void, in a gab between dimensions, making him a non-existent outsider in our universe. This creature was born out of PURE DARK MATTER in this void.” Non-existent Outsider. In other words sonic.exe doesn't have a non-existence. He just doesn't exist in our world. It'd be like having a brother who wasn't born in your timeline but existed in another universe. He doesn't have a Non-existence. He is non-existent In the context that he doesn't exist in your universe. So Sonic.exe doesn't have non-existence He just doesn't exist in our world because he wasn't born there. JC also clearly states that he's born of dark matter meaning he's clearly made of something that directly contradicts this idea of him being non-existent.
As a matter of fact, He consistently states that X is made of something.
“the creature was born within a cataclysm brought on by multiple forms of primordial energy accidentally ramming into each other all at once.”
“These "INGREDIENTS" created a SENTIENT MASS of Dark MATTER, a creature purely made of primordial ENERGY.”
“floating in the darkness as a giant blob of pure dark ENERGY with two red eyes.”
Continues in the Comments.
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